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 Timed Puzzle Bonus 
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Posted on: Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:45 pm




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Post Re: Timed Puzzle Bonus
fb_1124 wrote:
In Golf they use Handicap and by Billiards Moyenne maybe that can be used here too.
Or give points when a player beats their own fastest time.


The problem with giving players points when they beat their fastest time is that any new user could start with a slow time and then gradually beat that time by just a bit.


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Posted on: Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:07 pm




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Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 7:57 am
Post Re: Timed Puzzle Bonus
sneaklyfox wrote:
The problem with giving players points when they beat their fastest time is that any new user could start with a slow time and then gradually beat that time by just a bit.

You can avoid that by giving points for every 0.1sec from a fixed point.
Starting point = 30.0 secs and every 0.1sec = 1 point

It doesn't matter if you beat yourself 100 times with 0.1sec or goes directly to 6.0 secs.


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Posted on: Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:59 pm




Posts: 422
Location: Canada
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 2:43 am
Post Re: Timed Puzzle Bonus
fb_1124 wrote:
sneaklyfox wrote:
The problem with giving players points when they beat their fastest time is that any new user could start with a slow time and then gradually beat that time by just a bit.

You can avoid that by giving points for every 0.1sec from a fixed point.
Starting point = 30.0 secs and every 0.1sec = 1 point

It doesn't matter if you beat yourself 100 times with 0.1sec or goes directly to 6.0 secs.


Ok, so right now I have something like 7.7sec for my best time so does that mean I would automatically get 223 points when it's implemented? That'd be swell...


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Posted on: Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:26 am




Posts: 175
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 2:11 am
Post Re: Timed Puzzle Bonus
sneaklyfox wrote:
fb_1124 wrote:
sneaklyfox wrote:
The problem with giving players points when they beat their fastest time is that any new user could start with a slow time and then gradually beat that time by just a bit.

You can avoid that by giving points for every 0.1sec from a fixed point.
Starting point = 30.0 secs and every 0.1sec = 1 point

It doesn't matter if you beat yourself 100 times with 0.1sec or goes directly to 6.0 secs.


Ok, so right now I have something like 7.7sec for my best time so does that mean I would automatically get 223 points when it's implemented? That'd be swell...

I agree, I post a 7. something every day; I'd absolutely love this.

And the issue with setting handicaps is that if you set something like a par, and do this like golf handicaps, then either a handicap of 0 has to be 7 seconds(I get about 1 of those per day), which is utterly ridiculous, or it has to be something like 10, which I beat 9 puzzles out of 10.

Also, I feel like if we were to give points for beating own best times, that would be rewarding relative to self, rather than rewarding relative to some arbitrary good standard. e.g. We shouldn't reward a 30 second 4x4 regardless, even if the user who put it up had never done better than 2 minutes. Meanwhile, a 7.4 second 4x4 should always be rewarded, because there are maybe 10 people who can do it here. There are fewer people who can do a 7.4 second 4x4 than who can work a 10x10 (Which I tend to believe are the hardest puzzles here.)


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Posted on: Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:33 am




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Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 7:57 am
Post Re: Timed Puzzle Bonus
The 1 point for every 0.1 seconds was not a good idea.

But why not a point when someone beats their own time?
Even if its 2 minutes.

And why only give points for the elite, even if they don't beat their best time?
Because they are able to solve a 4x4 in 7 seconds?
They already get points for finishing in the top 8.

If thats the case change the subject in : the rich to get richer.
But if the goal is: get more people to play timed puzzles, reward them with points if they beat their own time.
It brings me back to timed puzzles.


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Posted on: Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:50 am




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Location: Canada
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Post Re: Timed Puzzle Bonus
starling wrote:
I agree, I post a 7. something every day; I'd absolutely love this.

And the issue with setting handicaps is that if you set something like a par, and do this like golf handicaps, then either a handicap of 0 has to be 7 seconds(I get about 1 of those per day), which is utterly ridiculous, or it has to be something like 10, which I beat 9 puzzles out of 10.

Also, I feel like if we were to give points for beating own best times, that would be rewarding relative to self, rather than rewarding relative to some arbitrary good standard. e.g. We shouldn't reward a 30 second 4x4 regardless, even if the user who put it up had never done better than 2 minutes. Meanwhile, a 7.4 second 4x4 should always be rewarded, because there are maybe 10 people who can do it here. There are fewer people who can do a 7.4 second 4x4 than who can work a 10x10 (Which I tend to believe are the hardest puzzles here.)


Note starling that the suggestion by fb_1124 regarding points rewarded is only for beating your own best time. Since yours is 6.something sec, you wouldn't get any extra points for finishing a puzzle in 7.something sec. I think you just want more points for doing puzzles quickly because you either don't have the time or the patience to complete all the daily puzzles (and I thought you were planning to do it sometime ago?) Why should all 7.4 second 4x4s be rewarded? What about all 10 second 4x4s? What if I were a genius and didn't have to take longer than 5 seconds to do any 4x4 puzzle and I thought your 7.4 seconds didn't deserve to be rewarded extra since it never took me that long? Yes, you're very fast (how old are you if I may ask, starling? There's an optimal age for faster brain processes), but you just sound a tad snobbish. Perhaps I'm misreading your tone. Or it sounds like your proposal really only benefits yourself.

Anyway, the best 10 solvers for time are already getting the most points from the timed puzzles. No need to have the same people get more. The current system is fine and I like that it's best out of 3. I think it's more fair and it sounds like other people would agree.

fb_1124 wrote:
The 1 point for every 0.1 seconds was not a good idea.


Maybe the 1 point for every 0.1sec could be tweaked. Like, for every 1sec less than 30sec you get 1 point until you move past 24sec. Then 1 point for every 0.5sec better than your best until you're past 20sec... by the time you're under 10sec you could get 1 point for every 0.1sec or something like that. Keep in mind, this is only for best time, not every puzzle you complete under 30sec. At least, this would give some sort of incentive to work at besting yourself.


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Posted on: Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:52 am




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Post Re: timed puzzle bonus
mparisi wrote:
johne wrote:
My main problem is that I dislike puzzles that have to be solved at speed so have no inclination to try the timed puzzles and this is frustrating since they count towards your total points. It would be good if they were scored separately and then slow solvers like me would get a chance to move to the top of the lists.


In the days before timed puzzles, there were a bunch of us solvers who solved every puzzle every day. The only way to move up on the list was to hope that the rest of the competition didn't have enough time to devote to solving all the puzzles, or had something more important to do than solve puzzles one day. It was pretty boring. Like you I dislike doing timed puzzles, but with the advent of timed puzzles you at least have something that can discriminate among the best players, even if it primarily rewards speed.


I agree with mparisi opinion. In fact, I would open the timed puzzles to non-logged puzzlers, so they could compare their results with those of the members of the "club", extending the number of fans. In chess, i.e., competitions are different for "fast games" (5 minutes for 40 movements) and for standard games (2 hours and a half for 40 movs). More than with golf I would rather compare this competition with "Le Tour de France", we have mountains (12x12, in the future 14x14, 15x15 and even 17x17), but also plains (twins, etc) and cronos. This is just a game. Some people do not like timed puzzles because of the "stress", or perhaps cannot find the necessary isolation conditions, or the "keyboard" is slow or has rebounds, who knows; and some other people do not like large puzzles because they require long time and you must work with papers, or you must get 20 or more descompositions into prime factors, etc. But giving different types of opportunites to different characters is more amused, so I would keep rankings mixed all the time.

Other question is the actual discussion about the way of assigning points (initially inspired in the cars racing), that probably must be refined (extending the points and/or correcting some unfairness, like the ones clearly exposed by starling). In fact, in my opinion, points should not be the same for 4x4, 5x5 and 6x6; I would reduce a little the 4x4 in favour of 6x6, due to level of difficulty.


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Posted on: Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:23 am




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Post Re: timed puzzle bonus
clm wrote:
Other question is the actual discussion about the way of assigning points (initially inspired in the cars racing), that probably must be refined (extending the points and/or correcting some unfairness, like the ones clearly exposed by starling). In fact, in my opinion, points should not be the same for 4x4, 5x5 and 6x6; I would reduce a little the 4x4 in favour of 6x6, due to level of difficulty.

A key difference is that the timed puzzles are a daily "race", and you get points for being faster,
not for solving an easier/more difficult puzzle. In this way, the difficulty lies in beating the times of others
(so getting points for a timed 4x4 is about as difficult as for a timed 5x5 etc.).

Wrt. scoring 3 times in the top 10 (for example) on a day: continuing the F1 analogy, if Vettel has the fastest
qualifying time in Q1, Q2, and Q3, he'll be in pole position (and won't race with 3 cars :) )

Another thought: one thing I could add is a "timed bonus points" ranking (i.e. the total).

Patrick


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Posted on: Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:18 pm




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Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 6:51 pm
Post Re: timed puzzle bonus
Quote:
A key difference is that the timed puzzles are a daily "race", and you get points for being faster,
not for solving an easier/more difficult puzzle. In this way, the difficulty lies in beating the times of others
(so getting points for a timed 4x4 is about as difficult as for a timed 5x5 etc.).

Wrt. scoring 3 times in the top 10 (for example) on a day: continuing the F1 analogy, if Vettel has the fastest
qualifying time in Q1, Q2, and Q3, he'll be in pole position (and won't race with 3 cars :) )

Another thought: one thing I could add is a "timed bonus points" ranking (i.e. the total).

Patrick


Patrick, I must admit that the argument of racing with 3 cars the same day lets me k.o.; anyway, "keeping the wheels in the circuit" during let's say 90 seconds in a 6x6 (that additionally is in general more complex than a 4x4) represents more "stress" than let's say 20 seconds in a 4x4, that's why I was thinking in some better prize (is the same philosophy of the non-timed). Another thing that I suggested some time ago is the possibility of including the results of timed puzzles in the "Your history".


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Posted on: Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:19 pm




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Post Re: timed puzzle bonus
clm wrote:
anyway, "keeping the wheels in the circuit" during let's say 90 seconds in a 6x6 (that additionally is in general more complex than a 4x4) represents more "stress" than let's say 20 seconds in a 4x4, that's why I was thinking in some better prize

Good point. It's a longer race.
clm wrote:
Another thing that I suggested some time ago is the possibility of including the results of timed puzzles in the "Your history".

Yes, thanks, that's on the list :)
Patrick


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