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Timed Puzzle Bonus
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Posted on: Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:53 pm

Posts: 422
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 2:43 am
Re: Timed Puzzle Bonus
The thing I don't like about the new timed puzzle scoring system is that #3 gets the same points as #5 and I too often end up #3. The other day I did a 19-sec 5x5 which might normally get a #1 ranking but sheldolina and starling got 16-sec on the same day so I was #3 again and #4 was something like 34-sec but I get the same points as that person.

Posted on: Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:24 am

Posts: 175
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 2:11 am
Re: Timed Puzzle Bonus
sneaklyfox wrote:
The thing I don't like about the new timed puzzle scoring system is that #3 gets the same points as #5 and I too often end up #3. The other day I did a 19-sec 5x5 which might normally get a #1 ranking but sheldolina and starling got 16-sec on the same day so I was #3 again and #4 was something like 34-sec but I get the same points as that person.

I mean, I still don't like that I can have a 16 second 5x5, or in a more extreme example, that 6.12 from earlier on a 4x4, and still only get 4 points, where some days you can get away with a 9 second 4x4 or a 28 second 5x5 for second place, which, though still respectable, is obviously not a 6.1 second 4x4 or a 16 second 5x5.

Personally, I still think that we have enough data to be scoring relative to the all time mean rather than any particular day at this point. Assuming you get a normal curve out of the all-time data, then maybe 3 points per standard deviation above it? That would make it possible to get more timed points, and it would make the points, though slightly still comparative, no longer hinged to the whims of any one day.

Posted on: Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:11 am

Posts: 2192
Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 11:58 pm
Re: Timed Puzzle Bonus
starling wrote:
I mean, I still don't like that I can have a 16 second 5x5, or in a more extreme example, that 6.12 from earlier on a 4x4, and still only get 4 points, where some days you can get away with a 9 second 4x4 or a 28 second 5x5 for second place, which, though still respectable, is obviously not a 6.1 second 4x4 or a 16 second 5x5.

Maybe I should drop timed points altogether

Another thing to consider: you're not making the same puzzle. You could in fact have
done a 30 second easy 5x5, and someone else could have done a 24 second harder 5x5.

I'll check if there's enough data to show best times for individual puzzles.

Patrick

Posted on: Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:13 am

Posts: 422
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 2:43 am
Re: Timed Puzzle Bonus
It's like I prefer being #5 than being #3... in one sense... aghh...

Posted on: Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:29 am

Posts: 422
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 2:43 am
Re: Timed Puzzle Bonus
It was just interesting to read the posts again about timed puzzles and also in the other topic about limits to speed. Interesting to read because you get things like starling saying he can't break the 6.0-sec barrier on a 4x4 in the near future while he does it rather frequently nowadays. Or sheldolina saying she has 5x5 times of something around 30-sec when those records have all been broken as well. Now I'm just waiting for someone to break the 4.0-sec barrier on a 4x4. Maybe it will happen in a few months...

Posted on: Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:29 am

Posts: 175
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 2:11 am
Re: Timed Puzzle Bonus
sneaklyfox wrote:
It was just interesting to read the posts again about timed puzzles and also in the other topic about limits to speed. Interesting to read because you get things like starling saying he can't break the 6.0-sec barrier on a 4x4 in the near future while he does it rather frequently nowadays. Or sheldolina saying she has 5x5 times of something around 30-sec when those records have all been broken as well. Now I'm just waiting for someone to break the 4.0-sec barrier on a 4x4. Maybe it will happen in a few months...

Yeah, I've noticed that since sheldolina passed me on everything, my times across the board, though they haven't re-caught hers, have gotten significantly lower. I've cut a full second on my 4x4 time since that stagnation was discussed.
Also, I've noticed that standards for what will get me where are significantly different.
A few weeks ago, I considered the following times even odds for first place on any given day:

4x4, 8.6 seconds
5x5, 23 seconds
6x6, 55 seconds

Now I don't feel safe at anything less than 7.0, 16, and 35.

And that's just a few weeks ago. When some of the posts in this thread were made, about 9.5, 30, and a minute felt semi-safe.

So yeah, timed puzzles are just going to keep getting faster, I'd expect.

Posted on: Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:50 am

Posts: 2192
Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 11:58 pm
Re: Timed Puzzle Bonus
starling wrote:
So yeah, timed puzzles are just going to keep getting faster, I'd expect.

I think the fastest people will run into a physical limit though: I don't see
anyone ever breaking the 4 second limit on a 4x4, for example.

Patrick

Posted on: Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:12 am

Posts: 175
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 2:11 am
Re: Timed Puzzle Bonus
pnm wrote:
starling wrote:
So yeah, timed puzzles are just going to keep getting faster, I'd expect.

I think the fastest people will run into a physical limit though: I don't see
anyone ever breaking the 4 second limit on a 4x4, for example.

Patrick

I'm not even entirely positive that's going to last. I think I could hit it given another shot at this one in timed form: http://www.calcudoku.org/en/2012-01-23/4/3

And that's a lot like this quote from Tyson Gay, approximately the second fastest sprinter in the world:

"I think with everything perfect I possibly could run 9.4, hahahaha. I know that sounds crazy but just being honest. I think the record [when he's old] will be in the 9.4 to 9.3 [range]. Maybe 9.2 range, and that's only if people can grasp and believe that's possible. All about the mind."

Mind you, Gay has never run faster than a 9.69 second, and the world record is currently 9.58. Basically, if I think I could break it given the perfect puzzle, and someone faster than me exists, then surely she'll hit it.

Posted on: Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:08 pm

Posts: 422
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 2:43 am
Re: Timed Puzzle Bonus
I noticed you used "she" in that last part, starling. I think I still use "he" for an unknown gender person just like "man" can refer to all humankind. But that's beside the point...

As to what Patrick said about the 4-sec barrier, I don't know if the physical limitations will stop there. Granted, they must stop *somewhere*, but I think 4 seconds is still possible to break from a physical standpoint. For example, I just timed how fast it would take for me to alternate tapping my right and left-hand fingers for 16 cells (4x4 puzzle). I didn't tap extremely fast, just medium fast and it took me 3 seconds (it can be even less). Assuming my brain is in top condition so it can read fast enough, under 4 seconds should be definitely doable from the physical standpoint.

I always thought it would be interesting to do this experiment: register a new username just to do timed puzzles. Get used to typing in as fast as possible a possible solution and then regardless of what the solution actually should be type it in the moment the puzzle starts. How many combinations are there for the solution arrangement for a 4x4 puzzle? It should be correct for once eventually and you'd probably get the fastest time because it didn't involve any hard thinking, just muscle memory.

Posted on: Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:36 pm

Posts: 246
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:40 pm
Re: Timed Puzzle Bonus
sneaklyfox wrote:
How many combinations are there for the solution arrangement for a 4x4 puzzle? It should be correct for once eventually and you'd probably get the fastest time because it didn't involve any hard thinking, just muscle memory.
With the basic rule of the calcudokus I calculated

12 arrangements for 3x3

580 arrangements for the 4x4

and 302173 for the 5x5

I'm sorry but for the superior dimensions it's very difficult ( or just impossible! ) to calculate the different number of possible combinations. ( For me, with my elements of calculus ).

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