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 Extra Puzzles 
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Posted on: Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:36 pm




Posts: 497
Location: Ladysmith, BC, Canada
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 1:37 am
Post Extra Puzzles
Me thinks there may be a "sand bagger or two" (ie: hiding in the reeds) to use 2 common expressions in this part of the world to describe a person who might appear to not be doing as much as possible.........in other words, I think there may be a flurry of extra puzzles entered towards the end of the month to vault said person(s) into 1st place (or close to it)in world for possibly a couple of days.......sound reasonable [sneaky]


Last edited by beaker on Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:29 am, edited 1 time in total.



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Posted on: Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:11 am




Posts: 98
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 12:48 am
Post Re: Extra Puzzles
beaker wrote:
Me thinks there may be a "sand bagger or two" (ie: hiding in the reeds) to use 2 common expressions in tis part of the world to describe a person who might appear to not be doing as much as possible.........in other words, I think there may be a flurry of extra puzzles entered towards the end of the month to vault said person(s) into 1st place (or close to it)in world for possibly a couple of days.......sound reasonable [sneaky]


I have done such in the past, and to my friends "I am #1 in the world!" [thumbup]
I think it always works out in the thirty day average. [smile]


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Posted on: Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:56 pm




Posts: 65
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:17 pm
Post Re: Extra Puzzles
I agree with that. Since these newly added "extra" puzzles have been added and may be submitted at any time to gain 8 points, then there is nothing to stop someone from "stockpiling" as many as desired and then submitting them all at once. Theoretically hundreds of points could be added in one shot. Even better than the 12x12 16 point 2 day delay!
Hence, the greater and more reliable indicator is the 30 day avg.
Another idea to make for more accuracy is to assign points on the date that the puzzles are presented and not on when they are completed/submitted. For example if you submit a June 9 puzzle on June 16 the points are assigned on June 9 totals, not June 16. Could this be possible to program effectively, Patrick?


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Posted on: Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:06 pm




Posts: 422
Location: Canada
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 2:43 am
Post Re: Extra Puzzles
I actually do not need to save up all the extra puzzles to get to the #1 spot in the world, but I figure it would help to keep a #1 spot for longer, maybe. The streak pays off better, especially if you're using book puzzles because you can only submit one a day so if you have to use 7 days of book puzzles and only get to the #1 spot for one day that isn't really worth it but if you keep going, each day after that you only use one new book puzzle to stay in the spot.

rickt wrote:
Another idea to make for more accuracy is to assign points on the date that the puzzles are presented and not on when they are completed/submitted. For example if you submit a June 9 puzzle on June 16 the points are assigned on June 9 totals, not June 16. Could this be possible to program effectively, Patrick?

Very interesting idea. I think I would be in favour of this, but if it's going to change then I need some warning so I can adjust my strategy. [biggrin]


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Posted on: Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:21 pm




Posts: 693
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 6:51 pm
Post Re: Extra Puzzles
rickt wrote:
I agree with that. Since these newly added "extra" puzzles have been added and may be submitted at any time to gain 8 points, then there is nothing to stop someone from "stockpiling" as many as desired and then submitting them all at once. Theoretically hundreds of points could be added in one shot. Even better than the 12x12 16 point 2 day delay!
Hence, the greater and more reliable indicator is the 30 day avg.
Another idea to make for more accuracy is to assign points on the date that the puzzles are presented and not on when they are completed/submitted. For example if you submit a June 9 puzzle on June 16 the points are assigned on June 9 totals, not June 16. Could this be possible to program effectively, Patrick?


I think your idea is the correct one, the "anomaly" would be easily avoided just by obtaining the sum of the last 7 days real solutions (the correct solutions corresponding to those 7 days), so the solutions with more than 7 days would always add to the absolute totals but not to the current 7-day ranking. In the case of the 30 day average, the philosophy could be the same, if we consider the solutions according to the date they correspond (obviously this indicator covers the 30 previous days to the present date), though a momentary "jump" (for subcribers only) is theorically possible within two consecutive dates and it can happen in this indicator, however it looks "legal". I think beaker has noted something which is very curious and that could produce a "loophole" (unwaited surprises) if not properly corrected. [thumbsup]


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Posted on: Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:47 pm




Posts: 497
Location: Ladysmith, BC, Canada
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 1:37 am
Post Re: Extra Puzzles
The point I made was not to cause all this controversy......it's just that when I tried to do the 12x12 extra, I got it wrong......then thought I'll come back to it later in the month......that's when I thought that some one might store the solutions and end up as #1 in the world for the 7 day total but I can't see it affecting the 30 day average all that much......but do you really care that some one might take over the 7 day total #1 spot.....I think that the 30 day average is probably more indicative of the # 1 in world because it isn't based on the number of days you have been on this site.....but, again, this might be skewed by book puzzles (subscribers and non-subscribers) plus the extras.......so more debate.......I only pointed this out because I thought "wouldn't it be FUNNY [lol] if I stored all the puzzles and ended up #1 on the 7 day total".....which in my case would be funny :-) because there is no way I'll ever end up there......I think everyone should just enjoy the site, subscribe or not, and see how they do......I don't want Patrick to change anything [thumbsup]


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Posted on: Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:45 am




Posts: 422
Location: Canada
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 2:43 am
Post Re: Extra Puzzles
But without rickt's suggestions, even the 30-day daily average could be somewhat skewed if one saved up a month's worth of puzzles, did it in one day and then did the puzzles on the day they came out for the following month. That's why I mentioned somewhere else that I'd like to know the points per days member.


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Posted on: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:00 am




Posts: 175
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 2:11 am
Post Re: Extra Puzzles
The easiest solution, in my opinion, is just to cap a maximum number of extra points per 7 days, and a maximum number of extra per 30 days.

Probably 56 and 240, but that could be tweaked pretty easily.


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Posted on: Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:25 am




Posts: 497
Location: Ladysmith, BC, Canada
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 1:37 am
Post Re: Extra Puzzles
But that (the weekly cap) really doesn't help with one of the advantages of the subscribed site and that is allowing a user to put off solving a puzzle until later which is one of the reasons I subscribed.....but I still don't see anything wrong with this possibility because other users have the samething with book puzzles......ie: they get a bunch solved and then on the next "bunch" of days they enter their solutions and "climb" the rankings......I can remember some time ago that I was in a certain spot in the world and 2 users "closed in on my position over a period of a couple of weeks and then "left me in their dust" the following week all because of book puzzles.....so, I purchased one of the books and inflated my scores for about 10 days and became #3 in the world but later fell back to my lower ranking.....and who cares if I had a couple of days "in the sun" [smile]


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Posted on: Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:59 am




Posts: 164
Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 11:51 pm
Post Re: Extra Puzzles
I also favor no caps on extra points and would suggest no caps on book points either. If someone wants to shine brightly briefly, why not let them? It all eventually averages out. I also like sneaklyfox's suggestion for an average points per day ranking for an interval much longer than a month.


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