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 Total daily scores/averages 
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Posted on: Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:59 am




Posts: 107
Location: Canada
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 7:40 pm
Post Total daily scores/averages
To, I am sure, many of us, it seems odd how high the daily points gained there are for those scoring +400-500 per week.
Would it be possible to see a more detailed breakdown of how this is achieved.
Now: Admittedly I am a rank amateur at this game, I cannot compete in timed games, but I do love the crafting of a solution.
Still: I cannot see how all those points are possible beyond combinations unavailable to the more mundane player.
Thus: A ranking according to puzzle type: all the normals, the timed, the other addons, would be appreciated.

OAV


Last edited by frederick on Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:52 am, edited 1 time in total.



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Posted on: Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:44 am




Posts: 422
Location: Canada
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 2:43 am
Post Re: Total daily scores/averages
As I understand what you're saying, you want to see a different ranking system. (This was mentioned in a different post.) As for a more detailed breakdown of how 400-500+ points are achieved in a week, this is roughly what my last week looks like according to my history:
Day 1 = 53 pts normal daily + 12 pts timed = 65
Day 2 = 64 pts normal daily + 8 pts timed + 10 pts bonus = 82
Day 3 = 51 pts normal daily + 9 pts timed + 10 pts bonus = 70
Day 4 = 68 pts normal daily + 12 pts timed + 10 pts bonus = 90
Day 5 = 64 pts normal daily + 12 pts timed = 76
Day 6 = 50 pts normal daily + 15 pts timed + 10 pts bonus = 75
Day 7 = 69 pts normal daily + 8 pts bonus = 90

Total = 419 pts normal daily + 68 pts timed + 48 pts bonus = 535

The timed points show after a few hours' delay and the 8 pts bonus is a mistake which should be corrected to 10 pts. 419 is the maximum for daily puzzles if you don't do timed. You should be able to do 3-4 bonus puzzles a week which would bring your total to about 459 or 469. Of course, if you don't do all the daily puzzles, especially some of the harder ones, you will lose a lot of points there. There are two puzzles worth 16 pts each, one puzzle worth 14 pts, 6 puzzles worth 10 pts. If you miss out just on those 9 puzzles, that is 106 points which is also about one bonus puzzle less. Hope that helps.


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Posted on: Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:26 am




Posts: 26
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 7:57 am
Post Re: Total daily scores/averages
And 12 pts (max 1 puzzle/day) for puzzles in a book: http://www.calcudoku.org/ops/books


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Posted on: Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:55 pm




Posts: 107
Location: Canada
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 7:40 pm
Post Re: Total daily scores/averages
sneaklyfox wrote:
As I understand what you're saying, you want to see a different ranking system. (This was mentioned in a different post.) As for a more detailed breakdown of how 400-500+ points are achieved in a week, this is roughly what my last week looks like according to my history:{details cut out.....} Hope that helps.


Thanks for your help. I do not want a different ranking system. I am quite content with the current system, including having points from all sources totaled for the world-county rankings. I would simply like a breakdown of the source so that the rankings would show 7 day ave for normal, for bonus, for timed etc and in total; also breakdowns for 31 day and total all time.


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Posted on: Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:50 pm




Posts: 43
Location: Tacoma, WA, USA
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 4:03 am
Post Re: Total daily scores/averages
I think a basic change is needed in the rankings. Since the timed puzzles were added and given so many points, the only way to get to the top or near the top of the 7 and 30 day, and the only way to move up in the overall, is apparently to type 90 miles an hour on 4’s and 5’s.

A separate ranking system should be added that is based on solving puzzles, not typing speed. Leave the current system in place (or change it however the sprinters want), but add a separate set of rankings that will give the distance runners a chance (by leaving out the timed puzzles). Otherwise we’re permanently stuck in this ditch off the side of the road – even if we solve every puzzle, we have no chance on the 7 or 30 day and we go down in the overall.


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Posted on: Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:51 am




Posts: 175
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 2:11 am
Post Re: Total daily scores/averages
rossiniman wrote:
I think a basic change is needed in the rankings. Since the timed puzzles were added and given so many points, the only way to get to the top or near the top of the 7 and 30 day, and the only way to move up in the overall, is apparently to type 90 miles an hour on 4’s and 5’s.

A separate ranking system should be added that is based on solving puzzles, not typing speed. Leave the current system in place (or change it however the sprinters want), but add a separate set of rankings that will give the distance runners a chance (by leaving out the timed puzzles). Otherwise we’re permanently stuck in this ditch off the side of the road – even if we solve every puzzle, we have no chance on the 7 or 30 day and we go down in the overall.

Out of people who are in the top 10 in the 7-day and 30-day, Here's the number of timed points for each of them in the past 2 days (September 9/10):

7 Day:

#1: 1
#2: 20
#3: 0
#4: 0
#4: 0
#6: 10
#7: 11
#8: 8
#9: 10
#10: 4

30 Day:

#1: 1
#2: 0
#3: 20
#4: 11
#5: 14
#6: 10
#7: 0
#7: 0
#7: 9
#10: 4

So the average number of timed points for the 7-day is 3.2 points/day/person.
The 30-day is a little bit more, it actually totals out to 3.45 points/day/person.

Out of both lists, both contain 4 people with a negligible number (0-1) of timed points.

The top 5 people in terms of timed points over the last 2 days:

#1: Me, 28
#2: Sneaklyfox, 20
#3: Alex, 16
#4: Foofoo, 14
#5: pnm, 12

Now, the places of those in both the 7-day and 30-day:

#1: 22, 14
#2: 3, 2
#3: 72, 141
#4: 11, 5
#5: 330, 258

So the average rankings for 7-day and 30-day for those top 5 are 87.6 and 92. Not by any means a ridiculous advantage.

Also, I'll point out the other two people who do well at the timed puzzles frequently, in Sheldolina and hopingcc. They're at 106, 137 and 61, 76 respectively. You're arguing there's a huge disadvantage to people who are "distance runners," but the best pure sprinter is well behind even the half-decent distance runner in this system. Your issue here is that unlike in running, where you're forced to specialize based off muscle types, puzzle solvers don't have to specialize, and so people have no issue in working all the puzzles and then also being good at timed puzzles, and so even if the top of those lists were filled with the timed puzzle geniuses, so long as they were doing so alongside working all the untimed as well.

Here is the ideal situation if we truly consider timed puzzle solving to be equal to untimed, which if we're going to continue the marathon versus sprint analogy must be true since no one would ever claim a marathon more or less important than a sprint. Someone who is perfect on the timed puzzles but does none of the untimed (Might be readable as "significant untimed," referring to everything past the first ten puzzles of the day.) should always be in the same points range as someone who does all of the untimed but gets none of the timed points. There should be sufficient timed points to where you can't be in the top position without having timed points. The issue Patrick proclaimed with the timed puzzles was that solely a certain number of people have access to the points, and so we need to create a system to fix this, and then increase the number of timed points. This might include adding 8x8 timed puzzles, but overall, the number of non-comparative timed points needs to be increased. The other thing that needs to be done under an ideal situation is that there need to be three separate rankings: Timed, Untimed, and combined. The default screen upon clicking the rankings link needs to be combined, but for those of us who really want to put in the effort to only care about on segment, we should be able to see our points accrued in the same set of rankings we have right now, but I also want to be able to see things like all time points accrued from timed puzzles, points from timed in the last 7 days, and average of the last 30 days from timed.

But basically, rossiniman, I'm sorry, but right now no form of data actually supports your claim... At that, the data kind of directly contradicts that claim.


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Posted on: Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:19 am




Posts: 422
Location: Canada
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 2:43 am
Post Re: Total daily scores/averages
starling wrote:
I also want to be able to see things like all time points accrued from timed puzzles, points from timed in the last 7 days, and average of the last 30 days from timed.


I think that would be good to have as well. As well as the aforementioned ranking lists (combined, untimed, timed).

I'd like to also mention in relation to the statistics shown by starling that I have been using a few book puzzles in the last week because I was tired of being #3. Previously, the rank #1 and #2 were danvijan and username. I'm sure they were using book puzzles to augment their 7-day point score because I knew I was getting more timed points than they were and since I complete all the daily untimed puzzles, it was only due to book puzzles that they came out with a higher score.


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Posted on: Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:13 am




Posts: 175
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 2:11 am
Post Re: Total daily scores/averages
sneaklyfox wrote:
starling wrote:
I also want to be able to see things like all time points accrued from timed puzzles, points from timed in the last 7 days, and average of the last 30 days from timed.


I think that would be good to have as well. As well as the aforementioned ranking lists (combined, untimed, timed).

I'd like to also mention in relation to the statistics shown by starling that I have been using a few book puzzles in the last week because I was tired of being #3. Previously, the rank #1 and #2 were danvijan and username. I'm sure they were using book puzzles to augment their 7-day point score because I knew I was getting more timed points than they were and since I complete all the daily untimed puzzles, it was only due to book puzzles that they came out with a higher score.

Yeah, actually when danvijian passed me following the change in timed puzzle scoring I actually sort of quit doing all the untimed because they take more effort than they're worth if being the best on timed puzzles in addition to solving all the untimed is no longer enough to guarantee first.


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Posted on: Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:57 pm




Posts: 2215
Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 11:58 pm
Post Re: Total daily scores/averages
starling, thanks for doing the stats on the timed puzzle points,
that saves me some work :-)

I understand the attraction of the rankings listings of course,
that's why I put them in.

I think I should provide a way for people to see how the points
break down, I'll add it to the todo list :-|

To give you an idea: currently at the top of the todo list are:
1) support https authentication for Facebook, because starting
October 1st, apps that don't do this will be banned from Facebook.
This involves quite a lot of configuring, some money (I need to buy an
SSL certificate and possibly a new IP address for calcudoku.org),
and programming.
2) create a new book of 12x12 puzzles only (well on the way
with that one)

Patrick


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Posted on: Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:13 pm




Posts: 107
Location: Canada
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 7:40 pm
Post Re: Total daily scores/averages
Very nice analysis by starling. I believe the timed puzzle points are a skill tester, not a typing speed tester. I do not have that skill - life goes on. But I would like to be able to compare myself with those who only do the daily normals - thus my thoughts re the breaking out of points. I suppose the analysis does that nonetheless it would be nice to see it formalized.
btw - inclusion of timed points to the total overall seems sensible to me - it rates different skills on a combined basis.
sneaklyfox's point of needing to post a daily book puzzles shows another aspect, personally i am not interested in the creation aspect - kudos to those who have that skill.
thank you pnm for your comments - aside from the thanks deserved for this cool site that is.

cheers to y'all


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