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 Killer Sudoku 
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Posted on: Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:25 pm




Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:49 pm
Post Killer Sudoku
Hi Patrick -

good to see the 9x9 "Killer" on your site. Just like any IT project, no sooner do you launch a beta but the people start complaining. So: thanks, good, I did enjoy the first puzzle

Instant feedback:
1) the small/medium/large does not change the size of the cells, and 9x9 has never quite fitted on my laptop screen
2) for a long time I've wanted there to be not only "killer sum" (as you and others have) but also "killer product"
3) once I'd solved the first puzzle I was awarded by zero points [thumbdn]

Regards,
Random_fruit


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Posted on: Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:40 pm




Posts: 2215
Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 11:58 pm
Post Re: Killer Sudoku
randomfruit wrote:
1) the small/medium/large does not change the size of the cells, and 9x9 has never quite fitted on my laptop screen

Yes, this has been mentioned several times on the forum and via e-mail.
I should've made a note that I knew this was still to be done :-)
randomfruit wrote:
2) for a long time I've wanted there to be not only "killer sum" (as you and others have) but also "killer product"

Anything is possible really. A killer subtract. A killer mod :-)
randomfruit wrote:
3) once I'd solved the first puzzle I was awarded by zero points [thumbdn]

Yes, still testing, no points yet...

Patrick


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Posted on: Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:08 pm




Posts: 165
Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 11:51 pm
Post Re: Killer Sudoku
I would advocate for a separate site for killer sudoku or keeping it to a minimum on this site. My path has been that I started with regular sudoku but got bored with it. Then I found killer sudoku which was much better but I eventually tired of it (even with some fairly difficult challenges). I thought KenKen had more potential but it always seemed too simple until I found this site. Once I found calcudoku.org I lost interest in killer sudoku. 562 days later I still find this site lively. For me, addition of killer sudokus would be an unwelcome step backwards. I would prefer new calcudoku directions (many have already been discussed/suggested in other posts).


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Posted on: Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:12 pm




Posts: 2215
Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 11:58 pm
Post Re: Killer Sudoku
sjs34 wrote:
I would advocate for a separate site for killer sudoku or keeping it to a minimum on this site. My path has been that I started with regular sudoku but got bored with it. Then I found killer sudoku which was much better but I eventually tired of it (even with some fairly difficult challenges).

The point of adding them is to attract people who know and like Killer Sudoku
(and then get them to do Calcudokus instead :-) )
It is a much better known puzzle, and it'll be easier to attract visitors to the
site (since the name is not trademarked, so I don't have to make up another name..).

Patrick


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Posted on: Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:46 am




Posts: 43
Location: Tacoma, WA, USA
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 4:03 am
Post Re: Killer Sudoku
They're a lotta fun!


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Posted on: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:40 pm




Posts: 2215
Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 11:58 pm
Post Re: Killer Sudoku
randomfruit wrote:
1) the small/medium/large does not change the size of the cells, and 9x9 has never quite fitted on my laptop screen

The resizing should work now.

Patrick


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Posted on: Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:35 pm




Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:45 pm
Post Re: Killer Sudoku
They are fun indeed, and difficult ones are difficult. The kind of difficult I like most, i.e. no guessing needed, but finding the solution witout guessing requires quite a bit of thinking. Thank you, good work [thumbsup]


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Posted on: Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:15 pm




Posts: 246
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:40 pm
Post Re: Killer Sudoku
jotempe wrote:
The kind of difficult I like most, i.e. no guessing needed, but finding the solution witout guessing requires quite a bit of thinking. Thank you, good work [thumbsup]


I guess you don't know yet Killer Sudokus. The examples Patrick gave us are easy. But the difficult are very difficult. Before I began Calcudoku I played killer sudokus in a site that has 10 levels of difficulty. The 1,2,3,4 levels are easy or medium. But, for example, the level 6 is impossible to solve them without guessing, guessing, guessing ( many trials and errors ). There are some great cages and the cages interpenetrate several nonets.
Honestly I hope Patrick continues with the present difficulty and don't read this to not remember.
I'd like to know the competent opinion of Clm about the impossibility of resolution ONLY with analytical methods.

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Posted on: Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:30 am




Posts: 694
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 6:51 pm
Post Re: Killer Sudoku
jomapil wrote:
jotempe wrote:
The kind of difficult I like most, i.e. no guessing needed, but finding the solution witout guessing requires quite a bit of thinking. Thank you, good work [thumbsup]


I guess you don't know yet Killer Sudokus. The examples Patrick gave us are easy. But the difficult are very difficult. Before I began Calcudoku I played killer sudokus in a site that has 10 levels of difficulty. The 1,2,3,4 levels are easy or medium. But, for example, the level 6 is impossible to solve them without guessing, guessing, guessing ( many trials and errors ). There are some great cages and the cages interpenetrate several nonets.
Honestly I hope Patrick continues with the present difficulty and don't read this to not remember.
I'd like to know the competent opinion of Clm about the impossibility of resolution ONLY with analytical methods.


Hi, jomapil, I agree with you in that there are much more difficult "Killer Sudokus" (and also "Kakuros", I have found Kakuros with very wide "crosses", "almost impossible" to solve) and that's one of the reasons I think that the actual Killer's under test are overrated. But at the time I was solving Killer's I did not participate in any Forum to discuss techniques, etc., but I remember I solved them using several equations in many cases. You know I'm always inclined to the use of the analytical methods but I think that before "affirming" if they can be solved using FAS o TAE it would be interesting to wait a little bit more, gain experience, and see what happens with these provided by Patrick in this site. Anyway, for this type of Killer's, with "addition only" cages, the multiplication rule will not be useful at all, while the parity and possibly other rules yes (and we have the additional and powerful tool of knowing the "3x3 boxes restriction").
Two of these per month, i.e., as extra puzzles for subscribers, or simply as an addition without points, just as an amused complement of the site, could be OK, but I agree with sjs34 that reducing them to a minimum, since it goes outside the "Calcudoku" target, because the Calcudoku itself is more perfect or complete as a numerical puzzle than any other type and admits many more variations.


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Posted on: Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:15 pm




Posts: 422
Location: Canada
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 2:43 am
Post Re: Killer Sudoku
Well, a "killer sudoku" is really a sudoku except with the cages and addition only operator which is one step towards calcudoku. Can't we create a "killer calcudoku" that has any of the operations like a normal calcudoku and simply add in the 3x3 feature (only one of each number from 1-9 in each 3x3 box?) That would make it a calcudoku but one step towards sudoku. An easy puzzle of this type could be solved like a normal calcudoku but with added clues from the sudoku rule whereas a difficult puzzle would require all the clues. Why not?


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