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 Method: Guessing 
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Posted on: Fri May 20, 2011 4:35 pm




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Post Re: Method: Guessing
sneaklyfox wrote:
maartensmit wrote:
And indeed, I do not believe guessing has anything to do with logic.

Edit: I now understand that you are trying to say that guessing in your head and guessing on paper aren't that different. I see why you think so, but for some reason it feels somewhat wrong to me to write down a number of which you're not sure it's correct, although calculating the possibilities in your head doesn't.


Well, I do understand that it feels different to guess in your head or guess on paper. I probably wouldn't call it a "guess" unless it were written down. I was just slightly irked by your earlier comment in which you thought that it was *wrong* to make a guess on paper and that by doing so one would be defeating the purpose of the puzzle almost as though anyone who used the guessing method were intellectually inferior.

So am I to understand that you only put a number down in a box when you know for sure that it is correct? That would mean that you do not use the = sign or the save feature? Just for clarification.

One reason why we may disagree is that there's no place in this online calcudoku page that allows us to write in pencil the possible numbers that go in a box. (I've seen this elsewhere on other calcudoku sites.) So, in your example of 4+ cage, I might put 1 and 3 in a random order until I can logically deduce which order it is. Half the way to solving those two boxes is knowing which numbers go there but would you call that a guess?

I indeed don't use the = sign (that's for bolding a number, right?). However, I do use the save function, but that's just because I have a busy life and I sometimes just need to save so I can continue in another session :)

When solving calcudokus on paper, I do sometimes write down the possibilities in a corner of the square, but only when the combination of numbers isn't obvious. In the 4+ example I simply wouldn't write that down. However, if I have somehow found that in a 10+ cage of 2 squares everything is impossible except for 3+7, I would.

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Posted on: Fri May 20, 2011 9:51 pm




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Post Re: Method: Guessing
Yes, the = sign is for bolding a number. When I first did the puzzles on this site, I didn't use the = sign because I didn't know it was there. It took longer to do the more difficult puzzles, sometimes a lot longer. After I could use the = sign, it became much easier. It's much easier to see when the numbers are already written down, even for obvious things like a +4 cage. I would argue that for some more challenging puzzles like 9x9, 10x10, 12x12, it would be much faster to use the = sign, but if you like to do it the hard way, it's your choice.

My method usually involves writing down numbers in a cage when I know for sure that it belongs in the cage even if I don't know where to put it. Then I use the bold when I know exactly where it goes. Maybe most people use this method?

Have you ever played Mastermind before? The game involves a lot of logical "guesswork".


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Posted on: Fri May 20, 2011 10:02 pm




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Post Re: Method: Guessing
My method for the large puzzles (8x8 and up) is to print them and use pen & paper :-)
Patrick


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Posted on: Fri May 20, 2011 10:11 pm




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Post Re: Method: Guessing
Ok, I'm more environmentally friendly. :-P

When I didn't know about the bold function I used to do the harder ones on paper but actually now I find this way much easier.

To each his own...


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Posted on: Fri May 20, 2011 11:51 pm




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Post Re: Method: Guessing
I use pen and paper with the larger puzzles and write a possible solution in 2 squares in small numbers in de middle. So I can see imedialtly if in that row numbers are already used. :roll:
Foefer


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Posted on: Sat May 21, 2011 12:47 am




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Post Re: Method: Guessing
sneaklyfox wrote:
Have you ever played Mastermind before? The game involves a lot of logical "guesswork".

Mastermind has a psychological aspect ;)
As far as the logical guesswork is concerned, I'm still not convinced logic and guessing are related. Isn't that pretty much the definition of guessing? :P

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Posted on: Sat May 21, 2011 6:48 am




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Post Re: Method: Guessing
foefer wrote:
I use pen and paper with the larger puzzles and write a possible solution in 2 squares in small numbers in de middle. So I can see imedialtly if in that row numbers are already used. :roll:
Foefer


I do sort of the same thing except I write it in big numbers online. If it's not in green (bold), it is essentially like your small number.


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Posted on: Sat May 21, 2011 6:52 am




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Post Re: Method: Guessing
maartensmit wrote:
sneaklyfox wrote:
Have you ever played Mastermind before? The game involves a lot of logical "guesswork".

Mastermind has a psychological aspect ;)
As far as the logical guesswork is concerned, I'm still not convinced logic and guessing are related. Isn't that pretty much the definition of guessing? :P


Yes, you're right that guessing and logic are really supposed to be like opposites. But the kind of guessing we're talking about isn't true guessing. A true guess is for when you have no clue whatsoever. Leaving out the pyschological aspect of Mastermind, the first guess is a true guess because you have no information and the "guesses" after that start to follow some sort of logic even though they are guesses. Does that make sense to you?


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Posted on: Sat May 21, 2011 4:06 pm




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Post Re: Method: Guessing
sneaklyfox wrote:
maartensmit wrote:
sneaklyfox wrote:
Have you ever played Mastermind before? The game involves a lot of logical "guesswork".

Mastermind has a psychological aspect ;)
As far as the logical guesswork is concerned, I'm still not convinced logic and guessing are related. Isn't that pretty much the definition of guessing? :P


Yes, you're right that guessing and logic are really supposed to be like opposites. But the kind of guessing we're talking about isn't true guessing. A true guess is for when you have no clue whatsoever. Leaving out the pyschological aspect of Mastermind, the first guess is a true guess because you have no information and the "guesses" after that start to follow some sort of logic even though they are guesses. Does that make sense to you?

I'm not sure, but do you mean that the guessing in mastermind aren't true guesses because there's some certainty in it, because of the previous guesses? Still, systematic guessing is still guessing.

I still think that as soon as you can be certain about something, it's logic; if you can't, it's guessing.

Anyway, we're getting off-topic here. :p

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Posted on: Sat May 21, 2011 4:37 pm




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Post Re: Method: Guessing
maartensmit wrote:
Anyway, we're getting off-topic here. :p

So start a new topic!
:)


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