Calcudoku puzzle forumhttps://www.calcudoku.org/forum/ -1 to +4 puzzlehttps://www.calcudoku.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1188 Page 2 of 3

 Author: pnm  [ Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:58 am ] Post subject: Re: -1 to +4 puzzle beaker wrote:Curious to know from other users if they have had one of these as a bonus configuration (-1 to +4)So far, 79 people have had this specific puzzle as a bonus puzzle(well 79 people solved it, rather)(including clm )

 Author: clm  [ Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:01 pm ] Post subject: Re: -1 to +4 puzzle pnm wrote:beaker wrote:Curious to know from other users if they have had one of these as a bonus configuration (-1 to +4)So far, 79 people have had this specific puzzle as a bonus puzzle(well 79 people solved it, rather)(including clm )When solving this type of Calcudoku (or any other type), by writing in the "old" books or in an independent piece of paper, I usually verify carefully the final solution. This time I made a terrible mistake (one always learns something): I was busy doing other things so, in parallel, I took a ballpoint pen and quickly solve the puzzle in a paper handkerchief. Usually, in the daily task, I am accustomed to think that after my analytical process the final verification is not really necessary, apart of the very useful "Continuous error checking" feature. Now I am more humble, and assumed something essential: that one must always carefully verify the final solution."Robotically", I considered the total sum of two columns as being 20 , instead of 18, in this -1 to 4 case [I do not make this mistake when solving similar book puzzles (let's say, -5 to 4, -1 to 7, -2 to 3, etc.) or one that we have every thursday, the symmetrical -3 to 3, where the sum is 0].Anyway, and thanks to beaker, this topic has given me the opportunity of doing a step by step solution (without complementary graphics) for a -1 to 4 6x6 Calcudoku.

 Author: beaker  [ Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:46 pm ] Post subject: Re: -1 to +4 puzzle 80 users and 79 solves ...... and I am the non-solver.....a bit depressing

 Author: paulv66  [ Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:50 pm ] Post subject: Re: -1 to +4 puzzle beaker wrote:80 users and 79 solves ...... and I am the non-solver.....a bit depressing There could be a lot of other non solvers. I had a look at the puzzle and it's quite tricky!

 Author: beaker  [ Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:47 am ] Post subject: Re: -1 to +4 puzzle If you look up at previous posts, 80 users have been given this bonus puzzle and all (but one:me) plus clm have completed it successfully......time to put this experience in past but have learned more about these puzzles but, frankly, hope to never see one again.

 Author: paulv66  [ Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:31 am ] Post subject: Re: -1 to +4 puzzle beaker wrote:If you look up at previous posts, 80 users have been given this bonus puzzle and all (but one:me) plus clm have completed it successfully......time to put this experience in past but have learned more about these puzzles but, frankly, hope to never see one again.Maybe I'm interpreting Patrick's post differently to how you're interpreting it. He started off by saying 79 people had been given the puzzle and then clarified by saying that 79 people had solved it. Anyway, I didn't know how to access the first few bonus puzzles I qualified for and then became quite paranoid about doing them as soon as they became available for fear I would leave it too late. I'll take your advice and will treat future -1 to 4 puzzles with a great deal of caution!

 Author: pnm  [ Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:42 am ] Post subject: Re: -1 to +4 puzzle beaker wrote:80 users and 79 solves ...... and I am the non-solver.....a bit depressing No, 79 people solved it, I don't know how many people got the puzzle (== 80 or more).I could find out how many did, but that's not straight-forward (requires some digging through log files..).

 Author: firefly  [ Sun May 10, 2020 10:21 pm ] Post subject: Re: -1 to +4 puzzle Another thing that can be useful on these negative range puzzles is just to convert them to the normal range. Addition/subtraction clusters translate very handily, although multiplication/division clusters don't.In the case of this puzzle, the only multiplication/division clusters were all 0's, which were already sort of wildcard clusters.In order to convert (-1 to 4) into a (1 to 6), you just need to add 2 to each cell value, of course. That means that a 2-cell cluster that is 0+ becomes 4+ (each cell adds 2, so 4 total for the 2-cell cluster). An 8+ 3-cell cluster becomes a 14+, etc.For subtraction clusters, the format is one positive number and the rest subtracted from it, so a 2- 2-cell cluster remains 2- (one cell is +2, the other is -2), while a 2- 3-cell cluster would end up as a 0- (one cell is +2, the remaining two are each -2, for a -2 total).Obviously, this isn't much help if you're just trying to solve the puzzle on this website alone, but if you use scratch paper or any other user-entered data tool (Excel spreadsheet, in my case), it can make things much easier.

 Author: clm  [ Mon May 11, 2020 10:12 pm ] Post subject: Re: -1 to +4 puzzle firefly wrote:Another thing that can be useful on these negative range puzzles is just to convert them to the normal range. Addition/subtraction clusters translate very handily, although multiplication/division clusters don't....Thanks, firefly.I find this idea really interesting, and possibly with very useful applications in the future (for instance, in the 7x7 subtraction only puzzle, we could decrease by 1 all digits and solve the corresponding 0 to 6 puzzle, keeping the subtraction cages exactly as they are, of course, and see what happens ...).This is a different concept of "The replacement" that I exposed in the Forum in the post on Sep 12, 2012, since now a different pool of numbers is used with the purpose of simplifying the solution process, by eliminating the 0 and the -1. Here, there is not a pure "replacement" since the "transformation" consists in shifting up all digits by adding 2 in every cell.How the addition and subtraction cages (with 2, 3 or more cells) transform is very well exposed.I have solved the "transformed" puzzle considering the "wildcard clusters" as no-op cages without a result and without an operator (blank cages) and, though it's a tricky process (and perhaps, in this particular case, a little trickier than solving the original -1 to 4 puzzle possibly due to loss of information), I have arrived to a unique solution (in the new range 1 to 6).The idea is very smart and it's difficult to imagine the possibilities. I have been fighting much in the past with the idea of "transforming" any puzzle in such a way that the solution becomes clearer. The main difficulty always arises with the multiplication and division cages, as in this case.

 Author: skeeter84  [ Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:09 pm ] Post subject: Re: -1 to +4 puzzle I'm so glad I created my -4 to +4 tables when I did, because THIS is what I got for my most recent bonus puzzle!It took some trial and error in several cages, but I eventually arrived at the correct solution. I had a no-op bonus puzzle before this one IIRC. I can only imagine the chaos that would ensue if there were a bonus puzzle with negative numbers AND no-op in it! skeeter84

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